Does Donald Estep I (Kentucky State Overseer) have the "Good Report" required for this position?
Paul describes to Timothy the qualifications of a Bishop in 1 Timothy 3. While we realize Bro. Estep is not a Bishop in the Church, are the qualifications for one who is to lead God's church in a region any less than the Bishops he will lead?
1 Timothy 3:7 says, speaking of a Bishop, "Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil"
Who are "them which are without"? They are everyone we deal with every day. In our personal business, paying our bills and our taxes, putting in a full day's work for a full day's pay, the checkout lady at WalMart.
Proverbs 20:11 says "Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right".
If I don't have a "good report" with them which are without I will only do damage to The Church of God if I am made a leader.
Enclosure 1 in the Links section illustrates a portion of Bro. Estep's "report" of them which are without. Are Federal Tax Leins and Bankruptcies an acceptable "report" of someone to lead The Church of God?
posted by Automaton at Sunday, March 05, 2006
16 Comments:
Well, I don't know the specifics of his financial situations, and do not care to -- but I generally do not think those things (bankruptcy and tax liens) would all together unqualify a person to have oversight in the church.
People have unexpected problems beyond their control. And being in debt and being unable to fulfill a debt is not outright condemened in scripture. After all, American bankruptcy is based on the Levitical system of "the year of jubille" and such.
If that is all the tangible actual discrepencies cited as "conduct unbecoming a minister in TCOG" it was a grasp at straws (IMO).
Now if he were known to be purposely deliquient, fraudulant, a user, a liar, a hypocrit, a flirt, etc. that would be a different story. If he has financial difficulties -- that is just part of life (IMO).
Non Conformist
I agree partially, however this is just the preliminary information that I have. Please stay tuned for more information.
A tax lein (IMO) can be a serious issue since it means you didn't pay your taxes. Who in today's society dosen't know to pay their taxes?
Money problems happen, but for you to make public his problems like this makes me wonder about YOU. Him being right or wrong does not give you the selfrighteous right to do this. I suggest you remove this, repent, then go pray for the guy.
I can certainly use all the prayer I can get and don't claim to have all the answers. I do pray for my leadership and will continue to do so.
John 18:20 reads "Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing". Jesus lived a life such that none of his actions needed to be hidden or done in secret. This standard applies to the leadership of God's church.
Bro. Estep being a member, I got no problem with, as you asy we all have tight money problems from time to time. But for him to be in the leadership position exhorting other to pay their tithe, manage their business well, etc. when he himself has issues I have a problem with.
Thank You for your commnets, please continue to post....
I know exactly what brother Estep was doing from talking to someone who was his treasurer, and in my humble opinion he was in the wrong. The scripture says in Mt 10:10 that the workman is worth his meat, but to get by means so that the govt. doesnt know so that they cant adjust his govt check I believe is wrong.
However problems in life do happen I myself had a company that was dependent on other companies and when they didnt do right then I was forced to file a bancruptcy I checked with my State Overseer he contacted HQ and no one felt that I would be setting a bad example, I filed to protect myself and family from creditors. So I have no problem with that part just the other.
In reference to the poster (a few posters ago). Bankruptcy and tax liens are a matter of public record;, available to anyone. No big deal in having it published here. In addition, many companies will not employee individuals with liens. How did it become a lien? Was it a last resort by the person or entity to which funds were owed after beind "ignored" by the debtor? i dealt with consumer and credit reports for years so I do have some expertise.
Going bankrupt for the "right" reason can be acceptable, depending on the situation.
Wonder if through the years Estep has been given a W-2 or 1099 form for his income from the church? Interesting Question.
Or is he taking any income from the Church? If not, maybe he should be so he could have paid his tax liens.
If Bankruptcy and liens makes a bad minister then we have whole lot! There are circumsatnces beyond human control sometimes. Health, loss of job, etc. Tax liens can be placed unjustly on you, I know had it done on my house, and had it cleared.
We may know the problem but not what caused it! Another Brother who is a State Overseer now filed bankruptcy just afew years ago. We would probably be surprised how many of them have. The point is you may find yourself in that position one day. And remember the Bible says: "YE are a chosen generation, A Royal priesthood" Ye are! You Are! we are all ministers.
True, there are situations that can cause bankruptcy such as health, loss of a job, even divorce. However, a lot of bankruptcy's are from excessive spending and inability to control it. This is when bankruptcy becomes a problem.
I'm confused about some of the post about bankruptcy and tax liens and such like.
In BTI we are taught to be an example and be careful in such matters.
I do believe that such actions (bankruptcy, tax liens cheating the government, not paying tithes and not reporting) SHOULD all together UNQUALIFY a person to have oversight in the Church.
I know that there are things that can happen beyond our control but just because there is a law saying that if we get in a bind - take bankruptcy - I don't know.
I believe this will cause people to loose confidence if the person is not honest and have not tried to do all they can to pay their debts. If something has happened beyond a person's control that does paint a different picture.
Lord help us to be honest in all things.
1 Bankruptcy, yes things do happen and we can find ourself in a bad place. But 3 bad reports??? HELLO!!!!
Don Estep should go try to be a Duck on a lake some were. I think he would be great living his life as a Duck. Instead of being James Nabors,Pigeon.
PLEASE LEAVE BROTHER ESTEP ALONE PRAY FOR HIM INSTEAD OF SLAMMING HIM.
It's not slamming when you are presenting facts. Want to know the content of a man's character?
Give him some authority.
I have a hard time believing that anyone believes that this is the right forum for a discussion about a man's past financial problems. Regardless of whether it is a matter of public record, most of us would not have taken it upon ourselves to go and look it up. Obviously these things are not sent to each of us automatically. You or someone had to have gone on a witch hunt. What personal axe do you have to grind? Have you taken it up personally with the man? When you began this, did you call and say, "Brother Don, could I come and talk to you personally about some issues that I have?" That would be interesting to know. Did you? Did anybody? Or was this information initially passed around very privately. Was it kept from some, particularly the man in question, while others were given access?
IF any of your problems with the man were truly legitimate, it seems that you have taken a very inappropriate approach to handling them.
This is basically a gossip site being used to try and destroy a man's character.
sad.So very sad. I'm disappointed in you automaton.
Previous Posters Comments....
"Workman is worth his meat, To get by means so the govt dosent know so they can adjust his Govt check I believe is wrong"
Huh.... Perhaps you should question the beloved saint Automaton on his business practices. As I know it, this lovely little saint opperates under his wifes name, claiming himself to be a part time worker, turning in only the hours and $'s allowed under his govt check regulations, when in fact he is the cheif technician doing the bulk of the work and the backbone and founder of the company. Sounds a little shady to me. In essence, a legal way to be crooked. Theres always a loop hole for every crook to sneak thru.
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