OfferingMonkey Asks For Clarification
OfferingMonkey asks:
As you ministers know, you pay tithe on any money you receive from a secular job or any outside the church source to the local church where you are a member. So the "Tithes Paid to the local church" of $96.00 was from an external source.
As you ministers also know, you pay tithes on any money you receive from the church you pastor MINUS any ministerial expense. So in the report in question "Tithes Received" was $0.00, add to this "Offerings Received" of $71.00 and then SUBTRACT "Ministerial Expense" of $500.00 and you get a income of -$429.00 (a negative number). Even though he made nothing according to this report he still paid $50.00 tithe to General Headquarters.
The "rub" if you will comes when we look at the cancelled checks from the Willisburg bank account for that same month of July 2002. You can see both summary (page 1) and details of July (page 3) by clicking here (Enclosure 3).
Only certain things can be claimed as "Ministerial Expense". You can't claim your rent, phone bill, electric bill, etc. as ministerial expense. You can claim mileage in the ministry (not going to the grocery store), lodging required as part of your duties as a minister, meals required as part of your duties as a minister, etc.
Using the numbers from Enclosure 3 we see a different picture than the Headquarters report shows:
Personal (not Ministerial) bills paid by church clerk were $797.42
Checks made payable to Don Estep were $1,700.00
Total Income was $2,497.42
Subtract Ministerial Expense claimed on Headquarters Report of $500.00
Income AFTER Ministerial Expense was $1,997.42
Shouldn't the "Tithes Paid to Hqts" on the July report read $199.74?
Even if we doubled the "Ministerial Expense" amount shouldn't the titles paid to hqts be $149.74 instead of $50.00?
You ministers out there who figure this EVERY month, help me out. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
Thank You, OfferingMonkey for bringing my error to my attention.
I wonder why no respnse has been given to the previous posters question about taking minesterial expense being takin into account on the reports? Is this true Auto?Well, looks like I didn't take ministerial exspense into account on the "Does the Tithing Test of Membership Apply to Bro. Estep?" post. I used the month of July 2002 for example due to having his report to Headquarters for that month. Let's look at the numbers again and see if I can get it right. Y'all help me now, post corrections to any errors you find.
The following numbers are taken from the July report of Don Estep to General Headquarters. You can view this report by clicking here.
Tithes Received were $0.00 (line drawn through the blank)
Offerings Received were $71.00
Tithes Paid to Hqts were $50.00
Tithes Paid to Local Church were $96.00
Ministerial Expense was $500.00Tithes Received were $0.00 (line drawn through the blank)
Offerings Received were $71.00
Tithes Paid to Hqts were $50.00
Tithes Paid to Local Church were $96.00
As you ministers know, you pay tithe on any money you receive from a secular job or any outside the church source to the local church where you are a member. So the "Tithes Paid to the local church" of $96.00 was from an external source.
As you ministers also know, you pay tithes on any money you receive from the church you pastor MINUS any ministerial expense. So in the report in question "Tithes Received" was $0.00, add to this "Offerings Received" of $71.00 and then SUBTRACT "Ministerial Expense" of $500.00 and you get a income of -$429.00 (a negative number). Even though he made nothing according to this report he still paid $50.00 tithe to General Headquarters.
The "rub" if you will comes when we look at the cancelled checks from the Willisburg bank account for that same month of July 2002. You can see both summary (page 1) and details of July (page 3) by clicking here (Enclosure 3).
Only certain things can be claimed as "Ministerial Expense". You can't claim your rent, phone bill, electric bill, etc. as ministerial expense. You can claim mileage in the ministry (not going to the grocery store), lodging required as part of your duties as a minister, meals required as part of your duties as a minister, etc.
Using the numbers from Enclosure 3 we see a different picture than the Headquarters report shows:
Personal (not Ministerial) bills paid by church clerk were $797.42
Checks made payable to Don Estep were $1,700.00
Total Income was $2,497.42
Subtract Ministerial Expense claimed on Headquarters Report of $500.00
Income AFTER Ministerial Expense was $1,997.42
Shouldn't the "Tithes Paid to Hqts" on the July report read $199.74?
Even if we doubled the "Ministerial Expense" amount shouldn't the titles paid to hqts be $149.74 instead of $50.00?
You ministers out there who figure this EVERY month, help me out. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
Thank You, OfferingMonkey for bringing my error to my attention.
posted by Automaton at Tuesday, July 04, 2006
3 Comments:
dbserv,
I agree that ministers can take a deduction for a "housing allowance" from the IRS.
My problem with the Overseer in quesiton is how he misrepresented his church income to the hearquarters of the same organization.
BTW it is my understanding that the "housing allowance" should be cleared with the local congregation and passed or apporved in a local business conference.
It is my understanding from the membership at Willisburg Ky that during his tenure as pastor the now Overseer in question did not have ANY business meetings. If you are former COGOP you know it is considered good business to have one every quarter.
thanks for your expertise in this matter.
OfferingMonkey,
I have already stated how I came to have the two monthly reports from Don Estep to General Headquarters.
Enclosure 4 is a copy of two monthly reports from Pastor Donald R. Estep I to General Headquarters for the months of July and August of 2002. This was during his pastorate at Willisburg Ky. These two months were returned to the local clerk due to lack of postage or clerical error. This is the only reason we have them.
This quote can be found at the link:
Click Here
The clerk who received the reports back saved them in the Church record.
2fold,
I have posted a LOT of info about why Don Estep should not be Kentucky Overseer. I don't need to post anymore.
If YOU can post any evidence refuting or disproving my information I will respond or apologize.
Seems all you can do is post lame attempts at humor. Not gonna waste my time on that...
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